Welcome to the latest episode of the Inform & Connect podcast, a production of the American Foundation for the Blind. In this episode, we talk with new AFB Trustee Victoria Watts. Victoria is a mother of four children, her youngest a seven-year-old boy who is blind. Victoria shares her journey with her son, and the mission that followed to make the world more accessible one packaged good at a time. Listen to find out more about this maker's mission to create a world of no limits not just for her son, but for all people who are blind or have low vision.
Inform & Connect Podcast Transcript
Season 4, Episode 3 -- A Conversation with AFB Trustee and Parent Innovator Victoria Watts
July 26, 2023
INTRO MUSIC FADES IN
Narrator
You're listening to Inform and Connect, conversations on blindness and low vision, a podcast of the American Foundation for the Blind. And now your host, Melody Goodspeed.
MUSIC FADES OUT
Melody Goodspeed
Hey everybody, this is Melody Goodspeed, welcome to the inform & Connect Podcast. I am hanging out with my colleague and partner in crime. Tony Stevens. Tony, how are you doing today?
Tony Stephens
I'm doing well. Thank you. Melody doing well. How about yourself?
Melody Goodspeed
I'm doing pretty good. You know, I really enjoyed our conversation earlier about our hang ups with Well, how should I say our bloopers with packaging? Can we call it that?
Tony Stephens
Yea, navigating a sometimes inaccessible world, the headaches that you have, which I know is a big part of our conversation today.
Melody Goodspeed
it is. And you just went traveling and shared some with me. But like, when it comes to maybe think about, like, for example, you know, one day I was home by myself and I was feeling really excited. I wanted to get the bathroom cleaned really badly. Okay, I've got the scrubbing bubbles. Like these little guys are great -- remember the commercial ones. I used to be able to see them in there. And I'm like, Well, I'm not feeling so hot. And then realized, I have cleaned my entire bathroom with carpet cleaner because the bottles are the exact same. I mean, come on. So there's my blooper for cleaning. What about yours?
Tony Stephens
I'm sure your bathtub though. Has that new carpet smell now? Which I love.
Melody Goodspeed
Well, yes.
Tony Stephens
We live in a world sometimes that throws us inaccessible things are things that we don't know what they are, a mystery. But in real time. Yeah. Which is definitely recently. I love traveling. Because there's nothing more exciting than you know, staying at the hotel, they spoil you with give you everything you need, right? There's nothing more grand than lathering up your hair, ready to start a new day with meetings. And then you realize you just lathered it up with the lotion from the wrong bottle because they never let you know which is which. So that's my common headache in the packaging world, or just the world of, you know, the guessing game of what is this? What am I about to drink? What am I about to eat? Yeah,
Melody Goodspeed
yes, I agree. You know, and you know what, I bet you your hair stayed stable the whole day in that same position,
Tony Stephens
Going for the greaser look like some 1950s movie.
Melody Goodspeed
Yeah, I mean, bringing Greece's John Travolta back to action right there. And then just to add to that, really quick before we bring in our guests who's going to talk to us about this, and which I'm super excited to have one of our new trustees and dear friend of AFB. I have a friend of mine that can totally perfectly see and except if she doesn't have her glasses on, or she's just really tired in the morning, and she called me one day and was like, Oh, my gosh, I just sprayed my hair with air freshener. So it's just not us. You know, I just want to put that out there. Well, you know, universal design and systems change. And all of these things is what we're going to break into today, as we talk to our new guest. With us, I want to introduce to everybody our very new, one of our newest board members to AFP, Victoria watts, and she's done so much within, you know, product packaging, and we're gonna dive into just what it's like to be a trailblazer. And not someone that just says, "Hey, this isn't working," but someone who actually gets in and does something about it, Victoria, it's so good to have you.
Victoria watts
Hi, Melody. Hi, Tony. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you so much for having me today on your podcast.
Tony Stephens
our pleasure. I mean, it's exciting when we talk about some of the headaches, the blindness community faces on a daily challenge, you know, when the world is not universally accessible. But yeah, it's great to have you on not just because you're sort of an innovator in that space. But there's a personal connection. There's a real reason as to what's motivated you.
Melody Goodspeed
Yes. So, Victoria and I are friends and I'm a mom, I have a six year old daughter and she has a really cool little son, can you tell us about what kind of brought you in as a mom and in the packaging industry? And can we talk about just kind of those things about being a mom.
Tony Stephens
absolutely unique situation around being a mom in this case.
Melody Goodspeed
Yeah, absolutely.
Victoria watts
So I am the mom to four wonderful children. And Cyrus is my youngest. He is now seven years old. And at about four months old, we learned that he was born blind due to a rare genetic eye condition. And at the time, I knew very little about blindness. I actually really didn't know Oh, anything about blindness, I don't even think I had met a blind person up until that point. And it was, it was devastating to me as a mom, it was terrifying. And I think what was most troublesome for me was not so much his disability, but the barriers that exist in today's world that would prevent him from fully like experiencing and participating in life and being independent. And that was frightening for me as a mom, because I had done this before I had three older kids, I knew the drill, this is my fourth child, this is going to be easy breezy. And then life threw me this curveball. And it was the first time as a mom, I didn't know what to do for him. I didn't know how to help him. And that was probably the worst part of it at that time. I started to think about things I had never thought about before. One of which is how he would be able to distinguish one product from another, how would he ever be able to be by himself? How would he be able to go grocery shopping? without assistance? How would he be able to do his personal grooming, you know, things that again, that as a sighted person, or a sighted people we take for granted. And understanding, or having my eyes open to those challenges that this community faces, I wanted to change that. I wanted to find a way that I could give the independence to my son and the rest of this community to be able to experience and enjoy products independently and safely.
Melody Goodspeed
That is awesome.
Tony Stephens
Yeah, if he was four months? Where did you go to try to find support? Were you able to get any kind of community to tap into, or anybody else like local agencies that sometimes serve, but I mean focus on school and stuff?
Victoria watts
Well, I'm the type of person that... it takes me a little bit to feel comfortable enough to reach out to various communities, I was at that time, just really dealing with the acceptance phase of this, of learning about his diagnosis. And so I just spent a lot of time doing my own research, and I did it in in steps that are comfortable for me. It's interesting, when I first learned of Cyrus's diagnosis, and I started reaching out to a few people in my life, and everyone said: You need to join this blog, you need to join this group, you need to do this. And to be quite honest with you, Tony, I wasn't ready to do that. I had to reach out. The, I had to, I had to do it in my time, I had to do it in a time that was comfortable for me. And I feel like, for any parent going through something like this. It's important to do it at your own pace, and be ready for those conversations. And it took me I'll be honest, a while to be ready for those conversations. And as I started to do some, you know, research, I came across American Foundation for the Blind. And I was connected with Kirk Adams, who was the CEO at the time, and we had a lovely conversation. And, you know, being someone that was born blind, like my son Cyrus, he was really able to give me some great insight. And also, he connected me to melody, who's a dear friend of mine, and we instantly hit it off. And she too, was able to give me insights into the world, the beautiful world, my son could have. I mean, just looking at melody, and you're a mom, and you're a great mom, and you have kids, and you have this beautiful life, regardless of the challenges that you face. That to me was inspiring. And so needed for me to move along on this journey.
Tony Stephens
So we talked a bit early on in this podcast about the packaging and some of the physical things around accessibility. Share a little bit about, I guess, your career so folks know, that your mindset sort of was gravitated towards something that a lot of people don't even think about? Until maybe they're left without electricity during a power outage or something. But talk a little bit about maybe your background and what got you into the products industry and that mindset?
Victoria watts
Yeah, so at the time of Cyrus's diagnosis, I had recently launched a skincare line called Victoria Island beauty that I first created to address my own skincare issues. And having that skincare line and coming to the realization of the struggles that people with low vision face when you're navigating a world of products package for the sighted, essentially, I thought, Alright, well, there's got to be a solution to this. And I'm going to find the solution. If it's not out there, I'm going to create it. And I'm going to implement it on my skincare line as a proof of concept. And that's really, where developing the Cyrus system of raise universal symbols originated from was identifying the need, and also having my skincare line to be able to demo as a proof of concept for this symbol system.
Tony Stephens
One of the exciting things we get so often are people that come to us with ideas. They maybe don't have the resources to bring the proof of concept to life. But you know, the idea that there are people out there that are kind of makers in their spirit.
Did you always have sort of this maker spirit? You obviously saw a need for a product in the world and said, "I can give the world something, I can make something." Was that something that always existed with you since a kid? I think it's such a wonderful skill set to have, when we talk about conquering barriers to access, or just life in general life lessons in general, sort of that makers mindset? Did you have that growing up? Or what fueled that you think?
Victoria watts
Yeah, so I think looking back, I've always had that innovative spirit. But I never, I've always had ideas, but I've never executed or never followed through with any of those ideas, and aren't really quite sure why maybe it was life, maybe just having kids or you know, just life. But in this situation, this was my son, this is going to impact my son's future. And this was so important, because it did personally impact me. And knowing that I could contribute to my son's life, and do something to create a more a better, more inclusive future was, I mean, that is what is fueled me to spend the last five years developing this system and raising awareness, and you know, when one door closes, it doesn't matter, I keep on moving forward, because it is so important, and I want a better future for Cyrus, I want a better future for this community, there should be a better future, there should be a more inclusive future. We as a society should do better. And, you know, having a son that is impacted by this... I mean, there's nothing more powerful Tony, than a mother's love for her child. And that is what fuels me to be a doer, to actually take action to create systems change.
Melody Goodspeed
And, you know, one of the things to add to that and watching you and go through this journey, was how you did it. And I think that's so important, because sometimes we try to do things because we think that we know not really fully understanding the the community's full need, you didn't just come up with those symbols on your own, can you kind of talk us through how those symbols started to be born and how you engage the community?
Victoria watts
Yeah, so, you know, going into this, I knew that, in order for me to come up with the most effective solution I had to bring in the community that I was designing for that much I knew. And, you know, I, you know, as in looking at other products that have been released in the market, you know, that have added braille to their packaging. Understanding that less than 10% of this population is able to read Braille, I thought to myself, how are these companies then, coming out with these products and putting Braille on their packaging? Don't they realize that they're now excluding 90%, or maybe more than 90% of the community they're supposedly inclusive of? And that really was frustrating and kind of confusing to me, like, how are these companies not? How do they not know this information? And so understanding that the reason they don't know this information is they don't work alongside the community that they're trying to be inclusive of, or designing for. And that's an epic fail. Understanding that I that was very important for me to work alongside the community because as a sighted person, I can guess what your challenges are. But I don't live it on a daily basis. So I needed to understand what those challenges are. And then during that process, I learned it was so valuable because I learned so much. Not only just the right height and size of the symbols needed to be but also the reliance on QR codes and barcodes. But the struggle is that oftentimes barcodes and QR codes are not embossed. So even though they have information that's very useful, it's very hard for some with low vision to be able to locate.
Melody Goodspeed
you're preaching to the choir on that one.
Victoria watts
that was a huge takeaway for me, and again, further emphasizes the importance of working alongside that community. Because I had done this on my own, I would have missed that. I would have the simple system wouldn't be as useful as it is without the help from the low vision community.
Melody Goodspeed
Right. And I have to say to also had it with the Braille I think. What I really enjoyed about the product when I use the race QR code, when their products was also seeing, like everything, like, how much it cost, what do I combine it with, all of those things that you just can't fit in Braille on a package?
Victoria watts
and for the sighted user, like myself, being able to scan a code and get all that information is way more convenient. And it's a much better product experience and trying to read the fine print on these packages. I mean, especially with beauty products of the print is so tiny, it's impossible. Even with my readers, on top of my contacts these days, it's a struggle. So just having an easy way to access that information. benefits all of us
Tony Stephens
just the idea of the rays QR code, because QR codes since the pandemic have become everywhere. Yeah. And the idea of like, I hadn't really thought of that myself. And is there any sort of body like ISO certifications that manufacturers and people sort of adhere to toward guidelines and best practices? That seems brilliant that we would have something as simple as a raised QR code.
Melody Goodspeed
right, and then when you scan it, to know that it actually reads it.
Victoria watts
know, I totally agree with you the the barrier for that, unfortunately, or at least that I've come across and all of my conversations with companies and beauty brands is the cost to embossed a QR code. And, you know, it's frustrating, but I feel it would be where we are making progress in this area. But I feel like this community is so misunderstood. I think the disabled community in general is very misunderstood. And it kind of comes down to with brands, is it worth the extra cost to emboss a QR code or add an embossed symbol to our product packaging? What it comes down to unfortunately, and my whole argument there is, this doesn't just reach the low vision community. This benefits everyone. Everybody can benefit from an easy to use symbol. This tactile symbol system on packaging and arrays QR code, it's going to create a better product experience across the board because really at the end of the day, accessibility benefits everyone.
Melody Goodspeed
Tony and I were talking earlier and and also with you Victoria like this whole concept of system change breaking barriers I think your focus is really systems change and products but systems change is so really hard for people to kind of understand and how important it is to break down barriers but to your point when you do that you're opening a whole new world for everyone. What does that mean to you to when you when you say systems change
Victoria watts
it means that changing the way things have always been done so in this instance in packaging. Any product that goes to the market, we have certain packaging requirements that you need. In order to launch a product into the marketplace. You have to have things like directions for use on your packaging. You have to have a barcode. To sell in Canada, you also need to have the product information or the product name in French. There's just various requirements that you have to have. My idea is to create a world where accessibility is a standard, not an option on packaging. So by rewriting, or redoing the current packaging standards to meet the needs of this community, we can essentially create systems change within the packaging industry by changing those requirements to include the Cyrus system, this tactile, universal language that I've created for packaging.
Tony Stephens
So I love that you mentioned that the driving catalyst for this was just the love of a mother, you know, Melody your mom as well. But I'm a parent as well, too, like I have, I have not experienced any more stronger advocate, oftentimes than that of a parent because just blind or not blind, you invest so much into your child's life. I mean, it is it's the hardest job people can have as parents. Do you are there other areas that you can think of in Cyrus's life? We talk about systems change, just how, you know, the whole thing is kind of broken, or that it's a mass issue? I think of the QR code, and I think of how much airlines used to provide Braille on the airplane for the safety presentations. They don't really do that so much anymore. But I mean, it could have just been a simple QR code. But then the question is: where's that QR code:? Something as simple as a solution that could be fixed... There's a cost to it, obviously. And our job is to make the case that the cost is a much greater benefit than anything that would be negative.
In Cyrus's life, are there other areas you think of that are some other headaches just as a parent that he navigates through as a seven year old who was blind?
Victoria watts
Yeah, I think digital accessibility, I mean, things, obviously, these aren't things Cyrus really deals with right now because he's seven. And, he goes to a school for the deaf and blind, so his school is very accessible. We also live in a place in Florida, St. Augustine, Florida, that is so accessible, which is something I feel like every city should model after what they've done here in Florida, but it's so many touch points in life that are a challenge and could be more accessible. Think about, you know, all the different areas, where you could add audio, that would make things more accessible for people that are blind and also make things better for me.
I love to listen to audio versus trying to read anything these days, because I am a slave to my e-readers, I don't even know how many e-readers I have around my house these days. So again, in using audio, it's such a powerful tool to make information accessible for this low vision community, given the fact that less than 10% of them or 10% are able to read Braille. So there's tools that we have now that we use in certain, you know, areas that if we can implement that across the board is going to make things so much more accessible for everyone.
Tony Stephens
In the disability community, they always mentioned the curb cut, like when the ATA came out, is the idea that the curb cut was something that cities really had to spend a lot of investment to get these curbs cut. I live in Baltimore city where there's still some old streets and easy tripping hazards. But, you know, the idea in the argument has been it's made the world accessible for people obviously with mobility impairments, but at the same time, people pushing carts, moms with strollers.
Victoria watts
Yeah. 100% As a mom, I appreciate that immensely. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, this is again, where this like lack of awareness comes from. There's so many things that have been universally designed and designed for people with disabilities, but that we benefit from I mean, curb cut outs are one thing, but audiobooks, text messaging, bendy straws. I mean, there are so many things out there that everyone uses on a daily basis, and they don't even understand that those things that are actually created for people with disabilities benefits us as well. So there's so much like people just don't realize the power of universal design, and if we just start as a society, as designers, as companies, as innovators designing from that lens... That's going to make the world a more accessible place.
Melody Goodspeed
I know. I have one question I do want to ask you, being someone who lived in a world totally sighted and then lost it, one of the things that I have found is of course, if I were to go up to you and say "Hi!", and start a conversation, or be in a job interview, or anything like that, as a sighted person, you know, great, easy peasy, right? Walking in with a cane or a guide dog gets crickets. And I personally, you and I have talked about this multiple times, due to a lack of will of education, and quite frankly, fear... And what I love that you're bringing here to the table is the fact that you saw something through the lens of your son that you brought it for an entire community to make change, but not only the community, but for the world. So you've introduced the system change. But it took that first step of just getting into a community. And, you know, for a lot of people that are sighted, it is really kind of intimidating to go and because they are afraid of, you know, will say something wrong or that type of stuff. What advice would you give people that are looking that want to hire or people that want to do something different or to engage with the community? Because I think that's really important.
Tony Stephens
Yeah, Cyrus is a normal kid around the house, right?
Victoria watts
Cyrus does everything that my sighted kids do. And one of the things that I loved about AFB. And one of the things that really resonated with me, from my first conversation with Kirk Adams was your whole mission of No Limits. And that has been my mantra and I have made it. I don't set any limits for Cyrus. Cyrus learned how to ski back in March, brought him to Colorado to the adaptive ski program, he learned how to ski he loved it. That's something we're going to do every year with him. Cyrus rides, horses, Cyrus swims, Cyrus does everything that my sighted children do, he just does it differently in a way that works for him. And, again, I always, in any situation, always remember that, creating a world of No Limits. Because really what I've learned on this journey is it doesn't matter what disability you have, you can do anything enable person can do for the most part, but you just do it differently. And if the world was set up, to be accessible, and to allow people to fully participate, it would just make it so much easier. Instead of people having to make up you know, like in packaging, for instance, having you know, making up your own systems for product identification, like bumped dots, or Braille labels, or scrunchies. Or positioning it in a certain place in your bathroom. So you know, where each product is, instead of having to do those things, creating a solution, creating systems change, to just make things easier, because being disabled is hard enough to have to take that extra step to make your own accommodations. It's just not right. And it's not necessary.
Melody Goodspeed
I feel like that was a mic drop moment right there. And it's true. It's just not necessary. And yeah,
Victoria watts
There are solutions out there that we can create if we just start thinking about designing things for everyone, because the reality is that most of us will become disabled in our lifetime. And what kind of world do you want? Do you want one where you can fully participate in experience and enjoy your life? Or do you want to be left wondering why you're left behind? Because right now, so many people are left behind or left on the sidelines. And it's just not right. It's not socially, right. It doesn't have to be that way. And by developing this universal tactile language for packaging, that's one less barrier that this community will have to face.
Tony Stephens
It's just innovations to help solve a problem. And I'm thinking of like, in our own history, the American Foundation for the Blind. There's a cool hipster indie record shop right around the corner from where I live. And, you know, I've had my kids go in there and try to read me records and they get very bored with. But it's, you know, the 33rd. And a third record, which is like the standard record that was really pushed out by AFB in the 1930s for the Talking Book, It was the idea that, let's make something that will slow it down. So you could put more than just a 78 speed, record, these to play at 78 revolutions per minute. And, like, well, if we slow it down and make it bigger disk, we can put so much more on and then hence, you know, Birth of the Talking Book was sort of born at that point. And it's, you know, it's just, you wouldn't even think of it as something that was born out of a need. But we talked about the curb cut, I mean, I'd love to experience a documentary or a good book, I'm sure there's hopefully, maybe someone out there that's written it on, you know, all the times when we're forced into a corner, and we have to try to find a solution to fix a problem, which is so much of a blind person's life. You just have to troubleshoot, you have to know how to get yourself out of the situation when you get lost. But not having that fear, right, is not letting it hold you back and be afraid of it. And that's good.
Victoria watts
And I think you're right, Tony, I mean, there's so many. Again, people just don't understand the origin of the audiobook, they don't and I think a documentary, honestly, on all of the things that are available to us, that we use on a daily basis, and how these were created and why they were created, I think a documentary... melody, maybe we can get Bill from LA to make a documentary because, again, it's, it's not that people are, are opposed to educated, it's just they don't know about it. It's not that people are opposed to the disabled community, they just don't understand it. And it's when you don't understand it, it makes you uncomfortable, you're uncomfortable, you say things you shouldn't say. I've heard everything, and I get it, because I said those things not knowing ableism. Now that I know, I feel it's my job to share that with other people so that they are informed about it, because it's just a lack of awareness. It's not anything malicious. The more we educate, the more we create systems change, we can normalize, or take steps to normalize disability. Because disabled people are people just like anyone else. with the same wants, needs and desires. And I think historically, disability, you know, was looked at very negatively, at least when I was growing up, like, just the way historically disability was viewed. And we've made such huge strides and disability now is such a big topic of conversation, which is exciting to see. But, you know, taking steps to normalize it and getting society to look at disability, as, you know, something that can impact all of us.
Melody Goodspeed
I think that the point that you're making here, because I want to go with this just a little bit, you know, you've done so much here, but one thing you have done, and I don't think people get this is you know at AFB. Last year, we launched the Helen Keller dining with friends, and you were our chair of that, and you held your own event, which was very intimate, which was so successful. What can you give two really big takeaways that you came from your own event by educating others, either your closest friends, like some things that like to have them the high level of, of what that did and how that changed perspective, because it was really powerful to me when you shared?
Victoria watts
The biggest takeaway from all of the guests that attended my dinner was, Wow, I didn't come into this dinner not knowing much about this community. I certainly didn't know about AFB and the great work they're doing. But I can't believe that there's such a low unemployment rate for this community. It's it's upsetting that there's a low unemployment rate and also that there are all of these challenges that exist for this community that we never thought about. We never no as sighted people or fully abled people, we never thought about these things. And you know, it was eye opening, for lack of a better way to say it to these challenges that this community faces.
Tony Stephens
Definitely, I took a trip once to Israel. Jerusalem is a 3000 year old city. So it was kind of built a little bit before the ADA. I had a fall and ended up in a wheelchair. And you don't realize it, you're like, "OMG," I can't get out even with friends trying to help and stuff. It's just like when you're in somewhere that is still a historical preservation place, the Old Town of Jerusalem. But I mean, I think it just magnifies the reality that you don't realize it until you experience it personally. But it's wonderful, because chances that people can have a chance to, even if it's experiencing sometimes tangentially; that at least can create a little bit enough focus for people to be like, Oh, I get that. That makes sense. You know, if you pay an extra nickel, or whatever it costs, maybe for a manufacturer to do something accessible. It's really, really changing the world.
Victoria watts
And vision loss is a spectrum. And most of us think the latest statistic I read is 85% of people over the age of 18 have some vision loss in the United States. And also, in the next, I think it's next 20 years, they predict that 55% More people will experience vision loss. And now with it, the you know, aging population is the biggest it's ever been. I mean, this problem is getting bigger, it's not going away, it's not getting better, it's getting bigger, for sure. And this is something to look for to get people to get society to realize that vision loss is a spectrum, you may not be medically blind or visually impaired. But vision loss is vision loss, right, and it can impact your daily life, it can impact certain things that you do. But by creating a universal system that everyone can use, it reaches just a broad audience. And I think it's getting people to honestly realize: okay, I'm part of this community too. into that, you know, get people to realize that they are part of this community too. And if they're not part of this community, now, the likelihood, according to the World Health Organization, that they will be part of this community, in some way shape, or form, this vision loss community, in their lifetime. So we need to start thinking about that, and preparing for that, and designing for that.
Tony Stephens
And we talked so much about aging in places a huge conversation, compared to people as they get older, because you know, people are living longer. And that just, it's just part of the human composition to have gradual vision loss, more significant the older you get, but it helps people stay in their homes. I mean, it has a huge cost benefit of, you know, on a system, we talked about systems, you know, off the whole system of end-of-care life, people able to stay at home compared to going into a nursing home where they need an extra hand. And nursing care is an enormous cost.
Victoria watts
And just to throw this in here, think about people that struggle like have learning disorders, dyslexia, foreign language speakers, also, these people can also benefit from an easy to use universal language, packaging language, because that's also a struggle. So you're bringing into the to the mix. Most of society, most of the population can benefit from that type of systems change.
Victoria watts
other thing I wanted to point out, because just as you were talking about the curb cuts, is here up in St. Augustine, this is a perfect example of a city that has been kind of universally designed in a way to be accessible for the low vision community, because there's such a big presence up here with the school, but you go to a crosswalk and you press that button, everything is audio, "wait, wait, wait." And then it has the countdown, everything is loud, and it's audible, so that person knows exactly when to cross the street, when to wait. And again, as a sighted person. I like that. I prefer that because I'm busy doing something at least I'm hearing. So that is just a perfect example of a very simple way to make crossing the streets. accessible and better for everyone.
Melody Goodspeed
I'm so glad you brought that up. I just had a conversation with a friend of mine yesterday who can see but he goes on walks a lot and with the sun setting, he can't see the lights. So in then how many times even do you think when I was driving where you have that glare? If you heard that you would have the confidence. So again, universal design folks don't need to rely on their eyes.
Tony Stephens
How many people rely on their eyes At the intersection Yeah. And like how many people are on a train? Look, and if you don't have the audible announcement too.
Victoria watts
right. Yeah, exactly. We've been taking Cyrus to Disney every year since he was probably about two or three.
Tony Stephens
Love that Florida residency pass.
Victoria watts
Yeah. And this year that we changed it up and took them to Universal Studios for the first time. And as I'm going through these rides, I'm thinking to myself if they could just have an audio feature when we're writing these rides, like we were on the Hagritz motorcycle ride, and there's a little bit of audio, but just to even have a device that you could pick up when you get to the park, if you need that assistance, that can take you through the park with audio. There's no reason why we can't do this.
Melody Goodspeed
And they have these museums with their walking tours. I mean, it's horrible people.
Victoria watts
There was a gentleman that was kind of guiding us through the park. And I mentioned that to him, I said, How come you guys aren't doing this, that would make it so much easier for people with disabilities, people like my son, but also make it better for everyone and the aging population to be able to know. And to get that audio description of what is happening on these rides. Because you can do it at museums across the world, you could do it here too. You really would improve that experience.
Tony Stephens
Disney one several awards in the accessibility community around an app they put out, that was the first time someone thought about it. For audio description and movie theaters. It would be on your phone, and it would sync up to the movie and have it. Sure I mean, Disney already has something that it would be just as easy to have it when you're waiting in line. Right?
Melody Goodspeed
Tony, I don't know about you, being a parent and a blind parent. But I obviously you and I listen to audio description, we're watching movies, but I come down all the time. And my kids, my son has got it on, and he's like, it just helps me concentrate.
Victoria watts
I'm so glad you said that. Because I was just saying that to someone the other day, because we've started with Osiris watch, we are watching Harry Potter, the Harry Potter movie the other day, and I put on audio description. And it was great for me as a sighted person, because sometimes there's glare on the TV, you know, the Harry Potter movies are usually very dark, and I can't really see what's happening. So it was able to give me what was happening without me actually being able to see it because of the glare on the TV or I get distracted by something. And I'm not really paying attention to the screen. It's a better experience for me, because I actually don't miss as much as I normally do when I watch a movie.
Tony Stephens
It helps us. My mother would have it on so she would be cooking in the kitchen.
Melody Goodspeed
Right? Or you have to get up and get your kid a drink or something spills. Because you know that always happens.
Thank you so much for being here. We are so excited to have you as one of our newest board members, we're so excited to have you with us as we ventured towards systems change and creating a life with no limits. Tony, do you have anything before we roll out? You want to add?
Tony Stephens
I don't think so. I mean, other than how can how can folks find out more about sort of the innovations you've been working on to try to advocate around and then find out more about what you're doing, Victoria.
Victoria watts
To learn more about the Cyrus system, you can visit Cyrus system.com. And to learn more about me, you can check out my LinkedIn profile.
Melody Goodspeed
Thank you so much. We've so enjoyed our time with you today. We look forward to more. And you know what I just want to say is personally thank you so much for all the advocating that you do, for having such a strong voice, and for just not settling, and for taking charge and making a change. Because a mom's heart and love is truly a change maker. Thank you so much.
Victoria watts
And thank you so much for having me and for giving me the opportunity to share my story and share the work that I do passionately do for this beautiful community.
Tony Stephens
It's moving us all forward together. So thank you.
Melody Goodspeed
Thanks to you guys so much for hanging out with us today with Victoria watts. Hope you've had an amazing time. If you want to check out what work we're up to, you can visit afb.org. Again, thank you so much and have a great day. Bye guys. See you soon.
MUSIC FADES IN
Tony Stephens
Thanks for listening to inform & connect, a podcast of the American Foundation for the Blind. Be sure to subscribe and like wherever you get your podcasts, and check us out and even consider making a tax deductible gift today. Go to afb.org. AFB, creating a world of no limits.
MUSIC FADES OUT
Inform & Connect Podcast Transcript
Season 4, Episode 3 -- A Conversation with AFB Trustee and Parent Innovator Victoria Watts
July 26, 2023
INTRO MUSIC FADES IN
Narrator
You're listening to Inform and Connect, conversations on blindness and low vision, a podcast of the American Foundation for the Blind. And now your host, Melody Goodspeed.
MUSIC FADES OUT
Melody Goodspeed
Hey everybody, this is Melody Goodspeed, welcome to the inform & Connect Podcast. I am hanging out with my colleague and partner in crime. Tony Stevens. Tony, how are you doing today?
Tony Stephens
I'm doing well. Thank you. Melody doing well. How about yourself?
Melody Goodspeed
I'm doing pretty good. You know, I really enjoyed our conversation earlier about our hang ups with Well, how should I say our bloopers with packaging? Can we call it that?
Tony Stephens
Yea, navigating a sometimes inaccessible world, the headaches that you have, which I know is a big part of our conversation today.
Melody Goodspeed
it is. And you just went traveling and shared some with me. But like, when it comes to maybe think about, like, for example, you know, one day I was home by myself and I was feeling really excited. I wanted to get the bathroom cleaned really badly. Okay, I've got the scrubbing bubbles. Like these little guys are great -- remember the commercial ones. I used to be able to see them in there. And I'm like, Well, I'm not feeling so hot. And then realized, I have cleaned my entire bathroom with carpet cleaner because the bottles are the exact same. I mean, come on. So there's my blooper for cleaning. What about yours?
Tony Stephens
I'm sure your bathtub though. Has that new carpet smell now? Which I love.
Melody Goodspeed
Well, yes.
Tony Stephens
We live in a world sometimes that throws us inaccessible things are things that we don't know what they are, a mystery. But in real time. Yeah. Which is definitely recently. I love traveling. Because there's nothing more exciting than you know, staying at the hotel, they spoil you with give you everything you need, right? There's nothing more grand than lathering up your hair, ready to start a new day with meetings. And then you realize you just lathered it up with the lotion from the wrong bottle because they never let you know which is which. So that's my common headache in the packaging world, or just the world of, you know, the guessing game of what is this? What am I about to drink? What am I about to eat? Yeah,
Melody Goodspeed
yes, I agree. You know, and you know what, I bet you your hair stayed stable the whole day in that same position,
Tony Stephens
Going for the greaser look like some 1950s movie.
Melody Goodspeed
Yeah, I mean, bringing Greece's John Travolta back to action right there. And then just to add to that, really quick before we bring in our guests who's going to talk to us about this, and which I'm super excited to have one of our new trustees and dear friend of AFB. I have a friend of mine that can totally perfectly see and except if she doesn't have her glasses on, or she's just really tired in the morning, and she called me one day and was like, Oh, my gosh, I just sprayed my hair with air freshener. So it's just not us. You know, I just want to put that out there. Well, you know, universal design and systems change. And all of these things is what we're going to break into today, as we talk to our new guest. With us, I want to introduce to everybody our very new, one of our newest board members to AFP, Victoria watts, and she's done so much within, you know, product packaging, and we're gonna dive into just what it's like to be a trailblazer. And not someone that just says, "Hey, this isn't working," but someone who actually gets in and does something about it, Victoria, it's so good to have you.
Victoria watts
Hi, Melody. Hi, Tony. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you so much for having me today on your podcast.
Tony Stephens
our pleasure. I mean, it's exciting when we talk about some of the headaches, the blindness community faces on a daily challenge, you know, when the world is not universally accessible. But yeah, it's great to have you on not just because you're sort of an innovator in that space. But there's a personal connection. There's a real reason as to what's motivated you.
Melody Goodspeed
Yes. So, Victoria and I are friends and I'm a mom, I have a six year old daughter and she has a really cool little son, can you tell us about what kind of brought you in as a mom and in the packaging industry? And can we talk about just kind of those things about being a mom.
Tony Stephens
absolutely unique situation around being a mom in this case.
Melody Goodspeed
Yeah, absolutely.
Victoria watts
So I am the mom to four wonderful children. And Cyrus is my youngest. He is now seven years old. And at about four months old, we learned that he was born blind due to a rare genetic eye condition. And at the time, I knew very little about blindness. I actually really didn't know Oh, anything about blindness, I don't even think I had met a blind person up until that point. And it was, it was devastating to me as a mom, it was terrifying. And I think what was most troublesome for me was not so much his disability, but the barriers that exist in today's world that would prevent him from fully like experiencing and participating in life and being independent. And that was frightening for me as a mom, because I had done this before I had three older kids, I knew the drill, this is my fourth child, this is going to be easy breezy. And then life threw me this curveball. And it was the first time as a mom, I didn't know what to do for him. I didn't know how to help him. And that was probably the worst part of it at that time. I started to think about things I had never thought about before. One of which is how he would be able to distinguish one product from another, how would he ever be able to be by himself? How would he be able to go grocery shopping? without assistance? How would he be able to do his personal grooming, you know, things that again, that as a sighted person, or a sighted people we take for granted. And understanding, or having my eyes open to those challenges that this community faces, I wanted to change that. I wanted to find a way that I could give the independence to my son and the rest of this community to be able to experience and enjoy products independently and safely.
Melody Goodspeed
That is awesome.
Tony Stephens
Yeah, if he was four months? Where did you go to try to find support? Were you able to get any kind of community to tap into, or anybody else like local agencies that sometimes serve, but I mean focus on school and stuff?
Victoria watts
Well, I'm the type of person that... it takes me a little bit to feel comfortable enough to reach out to various communities, I was at that time, just really dealing with the acceptance phase of this, of learning about his diagnosis. And so I just spent a lot of time doing my own research, and I did it in in steps that are comfortable for me. It's interesting, when I first learned of Cyrus's diagnosis, and I started reaching out to a few people in my life, and everyone said: You need to join this blog, you need to join this group, you need to do this. And to be quite honest with you, Tony, I wasn't ready to do that. I had to reach out. The, I had to, I had to do it in my time, I had to do it in a time that was comfortable for me. And I feel like, for any parent going through something like this. It's important to do it at your own pace, and be ready for those conversations. And it took me I'll be honest, a while to be ready for those conversations. And as I started to do some, you know, research, I came across American Foundation for the Blind. And I was connected with Kirk Adams, who was the CEO at the time, and we had a lovely conversation. And, you know, being someone that was born blind, like my son Cyrus, he was really able to give me some great insight. And also, he connected me to melody, who's a dear friend of mine, and we instantly hit it off. And she too, was able to give me insights into the world, the beautiful world, my son could have. I mean, just looking at melody, and you're a mom, and you're a great mom, and you have kids, and you have this beautiful life, regardless of the challenges that you face. That to me was inspiring. And so needed for me to move along on this journey.
Tony Stephens
So we talked a bit early on in this podcast about the packaging and some of the physical things around accessibility. Share a little bit about, I guess, your career so folks know, that your mindset sort of was gravitated towards something that a lot of people don't even think about? Until maybe they're left without electricity during a power outage or something. But talk a little bit about maybe your background and what got you into the products industry and that mindset?
Victoria watts
Yeah, so at the time of Cyrus's diagnosis, I had recently launched a skincare line called Victoria Island beauty that I first created to address my own skincare issues. And having that skincare line and coming to the realization of the struggles that people with low vision face when you're navigating a world of products package for the sighted, essentially, I thought, Alright, well, there's got to be a solution to this. And I'm going to find the solution. If it's not out there, I'm going to create it. And I'm going to implement it on my skincare line as a proof of concept. And that's really, where developing the Cyrus system of raise universal symbols originated from was identifying the need, and also having my skincare line to be able to demo as a proof of concept for this symbol system.
Tony Stephens
One of the exciting things we get so often are people that come to us with ideas. They maybe don't have the resources to bring the proof of concept to life. But you know, the idea that there are people out there that are kind of makers in their spirit.
Did you always have sort of this maker spirit? You obviously saw a need for a product in the world and said, "I can give the world something, I can make something." Was that something that always existed with you since a kid? I think it's such a wonderful skill set to have, when we talk about conquering barriers to access, or just life in general life lessons in general, sort of that makers mindset? Did you have that growing up? Or what fueled that you think?
Victoria watts
Yeah, so I think looking back, I've always had that innovative spirit. But I never, I've always had ideas, but I've never executed or never followed through with any of those ideas, and aren't really quite sure why maybe it was life, maybe just having kids or you know, just life. But in this situation, this was my son, this is going to impact my son's future. And this was so important, because it did personally impact me. And knowing that I could contribute to my son's life, and do something to create a more a better, more inclusive future was, I mean, that is what is fueled me to spend the last five years developing this system and raising awareness, and you know, when one door closes, it doesn't matter, I keep on moving forward, because it is so important, and I want a better future for Cyrus, I want a better future for this community, there should be a better future, there should be a more inclusive future. We as a society should do better. And, you know, having a son that is impacted by this... I mean, there's nothing more powerful Tony, than a mother's love for her child. And that is what fuels me to be a doer, to actually take action to create systems change.
Melody Goodspeed
And, you know, one of the things to add to that and watching you and go through this journey, was how you did it. And I think that's so important, because sometimes we try to do things because we think that we know not really fully understanding the the community's full need, you didn't just come up with those symbols on your own, can you kind of talk us through how those symbols started to be born and how you engage the community?
Victoria watts
Yeah, so, you know, going into this, I knew that, in order for me to come up with the most effective solution I had to bring in the community that I was designing for that much I knew. And, you know, I, you know, as in looking at other products that have been released in the market, you know, that have added braille to their packaging. Understanding that less than 10% of this population is able to read Braille, I thought to myself, how are these companies then, coming out with these products and putting Braille on their packaging? Don't they realize that they're now excluding 90%, or maybe more than 90% of the community they're supposedly inclusive of? And that really was frustrating and kind of confusing to me, like, how are these companies not? How do they not know this information? And so understanding that the reason they don't know this information is they don't work alongside the community that they're trying to be inclusive of, or designing for. And that's an epic fail. Understanding that I that was very important for me to work alongside the community because as a sighted person, I can guess what your challenges are. But I don't live it on a daily basis. So I needed to understand what those challenges are. And then during that process, I learned it was so valuable because I learned so much. Not only just the right height and size of the symbols needed to be but also the reliance on QR codes and barcodes. But the struggle is that oftentimes barcodes and QR codes are not embossed. So even though they have information that's very useful, it's very hard for some with low vision to be able to locate.
Melody Goodspeed
you're preaching to the choir on that one.
Victoria watts
that was a huge takeaway for me, and again, further emphasizes the importance of working alongside that community. Because I had done this on my own, I would have missed that. I would have the simple system wouldn't be as useful as it is without the help from the low vision community.
Melody Goodspeed
Right. And I have to say to also had it with the Braille I think. What I really enjoyed about the product when I use the race QR code, when their products was also seeing, like everything, like, how much it cost, what do I combine it with, all of those things that you just can't fit in Braille on a package?
Victoria watts
and for the sighted user, like myself, being able to scan a code and get all that information is way more convenient. And it's a much better product experience and trying to read the fine print on these packages. I mean, especially with beauty products of the print is so tiny, it's impossible. Even with my readers, on top of my contacts these days, it's a struggle. So just having an easy way to access that information. benefits all of us
Tony Stephens
just the idea of the rays QR code, because QR codes since the pandemic have become everywhere. Yeah. And the idea of like, I hadn't really thought of that myself. And is there any sort of body like ISO certifications that manufacturers and people sort of adhere to toward guidelines and best practices? That seems brilliant that we would have something as simple as a raised QR code.
Melody Goodspeed
right, and then when you scan it, to know that it actually reads it.
Victoria watts
know, I totally agree with you the the barrier for that, unfortunately, or at least that I've come across and all of my conversations with companies and beauty brands is the cost to embossed a QR code. And, you know, it's frustrating, but I feel it would be where we are making progress in this area. But I feel like this community is so misunderstood. I think the disabled community in general is very misunderstood. And it kind of comes down to with brands, is it worth the extra cost to emboss a QR code or add an embossed symbol to our product packaging? What it comes down to unfortunately, and my whole argument there is, this doesn't just reach the low vision community. This benefits everyone. Everybody can benefit from an easy to use symbol. This tactile symbol system on packaging and arrays QR code, it's going to create a better product experience across the board because really at the end of the day, accessibility benefits everyone.
Melody Goodspeed
Tony and I were talking earlier and and also with you Victoria like this whole concept of system change breaking barriers I think your focus is really systems change and products but systems change is so really hard for people to kind of understand and how important it is to break down barriers but to your point when you do that you're opening a whole new world for everyone. What does that mean to you to when you when you say systems change
Victoria watts
it means that changing the way things have always been done so in this instance in packaging. Any product that goes to the market, we have certain packaging requirements that you need. In order to launch a product into the marketplace. You have to have things like directions for use on your packaging. You have to have a barcode. To sell in Canada, you also need to have the product information or the product name in French. There's just various requirements that you have to have. My idea is to create a world where accessibility is a standard, not an option on packaging. So by rewriting, or redoing the current packaging standards to meet the needs of this community, we can essentially create systems change within the packaging industry by changing those requirements to include the Cyrus system, this tactile, universal language that I've created for packaging.
Tony Stephens
So I love that you mentioned that the driving catalyst for this was just the love of a mother, you know, Melody your mom as well. But I'm a parent as well, too, like I have, I have not experienced any more stronger advocate, oftentimes than that of a parent because just blind or not blind, you invest so much into your child's life. I mean, it is it's the hardest job people can have as parents. Do you are there other areas that you can think of in Cyrus's life? We talk about systems change, just how, you know, the whole thing is kind of broken, or that it's a mass issue? I think of the QR code, and I think of how much airlines used to provide Braille on the airplane for the safety presentations. They don't really do that so much anymore. But I mean, it could have just been a simple QR code. But then the question is: where's that QR code:? Something as simple as a solution that could be fixed... There's a cost to it, obviously. And our job is to make the case that the cost is a much greater benefit than anything that would be negative.
In Cyrus's life, are there other areas you think of that are some other headaches just as a parent that he navigates through as a seven year old who was blind?
Victoria watts
Yeah, I think digital accessibility, I mean, things, obviously, these aren't things Cyrus really deals with right now because he's seven. And, he goes to a school for the deaf and blind, so his school is very accessible. We also live in a place in Florida, St. Augustine, Florida, that is so accessible, which is something I feel like every city should model after what they've done here in Florida, but it's so many touch points in life that are a challenge and could be more accessible. Think about, you know, all the different areas, where you could add audio, that would make things more accessible for people that are blind and also make things better for me.
I love to listen to audio versus trying to read anything these days, because I am a slave to my e-readers, I don't even know how many e-readers I have around my house these days. So again, in using audio, it's such a powerful tool to make information accessible for this low vision community, given the fact that less than 10% of them or 10% are able to read Braille. So there's tools that we have now that we use in certain, you know, areas that if we can implement that across the board is going to make things so much more accessible for everyone.
Tony Stephens
In the disability community, they always mentioned the curb cut, like when the ATA came out, is the idea that the curb cut was something that cities really had to spend a lot of investment to get these curbs cut. I live in Baltimore city where there's still some old streets and easy tripping hazards. But, you know, the idea in the argument has been it's made the world accessible for people obviously with mobility impairments, but at the same time, people pushing carts, moms with strollers.
Victoria watts
Yeah. 100% As a mom, I appreciate that immensely. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, this is again, where this like lack of awareness comes from. There's so many things that have been universally designed and designed for people with disabilities, but that we benefit from I mean, curb cut outs are one thing, but audiobooks, text messaging, bendy straws. I mean, there are so many things out there that everyone uses on a daily basis, and they don't even understand that those things that are actually created for people with disabilities benefits us as well. So there's so much like people just don't realize the power of universal design, and if we just start as a society, as designers, as companies, as innovators designing from that lens... That's going to make the world a more accessible place.
Melody Goodspeed
I know. I have one question I do want to ask you, being someone who lived in a world totally sighted and then lost it, one of the things that I have found is of course, if I were to go up to you and say "Hi!", and start a conversation, or be in a job interview, or anything like that, as a sighted person, you know, great, easy peasy, right? Walking in with a cane or a guide dog gets crickets. And I personally, you and I have talked about this multiple times, due to a lack of will of education, and quite frankly, fear... And what I love that you're bringing here to the table is the fact that you saw something through the lens of your son that you brought it for an entire community to make change, but not only the community, but for the world. So you've introduced the system change. But it took that first step of just getting into a community. And, you know, for a lot of people that are sighted, it is really kind of intimidating to go and because they are afraid of, you know, will say something wrong or that type of stuff. What advice would you give people that are looking that want to hire or people that want to do something different or to engage with the community? Because I think that's really important.
Tony Stephens
Yeah, Cyrus is a normal kid around the house, right?
Victoria watts
Cyrus does everything that my sighted kids do. And one of the things that I loved about AFB. And one of the things that really resonated with me, from my first conversation with Kirk Adams was your whole mission of No Limits. And that has been my mantra and I have made it. I don't set any limits for Cyrus. Cyrus learned how to ski back in March, brought him to Colorado to the adaptive ski program, he learned how to ski he loved it. That's something we're going to do every year with him. Cyrus rides, horses, Cyrus swims, Cyrus does everything that my sighted children do, he just does it differently in a way that works for him. And, again, I always, in any situation, always remember that, creating a world of No Limits. Because really what I've learned on this journey is it doesn't matter what disability you have, you can do anything enable person can do for the most part, but you just do it differently. And if the world was set up, to be accessible, and to allow people to fully participate, it would just make it so much easier. Instead of people having to make up you know, like in packaging, for instance, having you know, making up your own systems for product identification, like bumped dots, or Braille labels, or scrunchies. Or positioning it in a certain place in your bathroom. So you know, where each product is, instead of having to do those things, creating a solution, creating systems change, to just make things easier, because being disabled is hard enough to have to take that extra step to make your own accommodations. It's just not right. And it's not necessary.
Melody Goodspeed
I feel like that was a mic drop moment right there. And it's true. It's just not necessary. And yeah,
Victoria watts
There are solutions out there that we can create if we just start thinking about designing things for everyone, because the reality is that most of us will become disabled in our lifetime. And what kind of world do you want? Do you want one where you can fully participate in experience and enjoy your life? Or do you want to be left wondering why you're left behind? Because right now, so many people are left behind or left on the sidelines. And it's just not right. It's not socially, right. It doesn't have to be that way. And by developing this universal tactile language for packaging, that's one less barrier that this community will have to face.
Tony Stephens
It's just innovations to help solve a problem. And I'm thinking of like, in our own history, the American Foundation for the Blind. There's a cool hipster indie record shop right around the corner from where I live. And, you know, I've had my kids go in there and try to read me records and they get very bored with. But it's, you know, the 33rd. And a third record, which is like the standard record that was really pushed out by AFB in the 1930s for the Talking Book, It was the idea that, let's make something that will slow it down. So you could put more than just a 78 speed, record, these to play at 78 revolutions per minute. And, like, well, if we slow it down and make it bigger disk, we can put so much more on and then hence, you know, Birth of the Talking Book was sort of born at that point. And it's, you know, it's just, you wouldn't even think of it as something that was born out of a need. But we talked about the curb cut, I mean, I'd love to experience a documentary or a good book, I'm sure there's hopefully, maybe someone out there that's written it on, you know, all the times when we're forced into a corner, and we have to try to find a solution to fix a problem, which is so much of a blind person's life. You just have to troubleshoot, you have to know how to get yourself out of the situation when you get lost. But not having that fear, right, is not letting it hold you back and be afraid of it. And that's good.
Victoria watts
And I think you're right, Tony, I mean, there's so many. Again, people just don't understand the origin of the audiobook, they don't and I think a documentary, honestly, on all of the things that are available to us, that we use on a daily basis, and how these were created and why they were created, I think a documentary... melody, maybe we can get Bill from LA to make a documentary because, again, it's, it's not that people are, are opposed to educated, it's just they don't know about it. It's not that people are opposed to the disabled community, they just don't understand it. And it's when you don't understand it, it makes you uncomfortable, you're uncomfortable, you say things you shouldn't say. I've heard everything, and I get it, because I said those things not knowing ableism. Now that I know, I feel it's my job to share that with other people so that they are informed about it, because it's just a lack of awareness. It's not anything malicious. The more we educate, the more we create systems change, we can normalize, or take steps to normalize disability. Because disabled people are people just like anyone else. with the same wants, needs and desires. And I think historically, disability, you know, was looked at very negatively, at least when I was growing up, like, just the way historically disability was viewed. And we've made such huge strides and disability now is such a big topic of conversation, which is exciting to see. But, you know, taking steps to normalize it and getting society to look at disability, as, you know, something that can impact all of us.
Melody Goodspeed
I think that the point that you're making here, because I want to go with this just a little bit, you know, you've done so much here, but one thing you have done, and I don't think people get this is you know at AFB. Last year, we launched the Helen Keller dining with friends, and you were our chair of that, and you held your own event, which was very intimate, which was so successful. What can you give two really big takeaways that you came from your own event by educating others, either your closest friends, like some things that like to have them the high level of, of what that did and how that changed perspective, because it was really powerful to me when you shared?
Victoria watts
The biggest takeaway from all of the guests that attended my dinner was, Wow, I didn't come into this dinner not knowing much about this community. I certainly didn't know about AFB and the great work they're doing. But I can't believe that there's such a low unemployment rate for this community. It's it's upsetting that there's a low unemployment rate and also that there are all of these challenges that exist for this community that we never thought about. We never no as sighted people or fully abled people, we never thought about these things. And you know, it was eye opening, for lack of a better way to say it to these challenges that this community faces.
Tony Stephens
Definitely, I took a trip once to Israel. Jerusalem is a 3000 year old city. So it was kind of built a little bit before the ADA. I had a fall and ended up in a wheelchair. And you don't realize it, you're like, "OMG," I can't get out even with friends trying to help and stuff. It's just like when you're in somewhere that is still a historical preservation place, the Old Town of Jerusalem. But I mean, I think it just magnifies the reality that you don't realize it until you experience it personally. But it's wonderful, because chances that people can have a chance to, even if it's experiencing sometimes tangentially; that at least can create a little bit enough focus for people to be like, Oh, I get that. That makes sense. You know, if you pay an extra nickel, or whatever it costs, maybe for a manufacturer to do something accessible. It's really, really changing the world.
Victoria watts
And vision loss is a spectrum. And most of us think the latest statistic I read is 85% of people over the age of 18 have some vision loss in the United States. And also, in the next, I think it's next 20 years, they predict that 55% More people will experience vision loss. And now with it, the you know, aging population is the biggest it's ever been. I mean, this problem is getting bigger, it's not going away, it's not getting better, it's getting bigger, for sure. And this is something to look for to get people to get society to realize that vision loss is a spectrum, you may not be medically blind or visually impaired. But vision loss is vision loss, right, and it can impact your daily life, it can impact certain things that you do. But by creating a universal system that everyone can use, it reaches just a broad audience. And I think it's getting people to honestly realize: okay, I'm part of this community too. into that, you know, get people to realize that they are part of this community too. And if they're not part of this community, now, the likelihood, according to the World Health Organization, that they will be part of this community, in some way shape, or form, this vision loss community, in their lifetime. So we need to start thinking about that, and preparing for that, and designing for that.
Tony Stephens
And we talked so much about aging in places a huge conversation, compared to people as they get older, because you know, people are living longer. And that just, it's just part of the human composition to have gradual vision loss, more significant the older you get, but it helps people stay in their homes. I mean, it has a huge cost benefit of, you know, on a system, we talked about systems, you know, off the whole system of end-of-care life, people able to stay at home compared to going into a nursing home where they need an extra hand. And nursing care is an enormous cost.
Victoria watts
And just to throw this in here, think about people that struggle like have learning disorders, dyslexia, foreign language speakers, also, these people can also benefit from an easy to use universal language, packaging language, because that's also a struggle. So you're bringing into the to the mix. Most of society, most of the population can benefit from that type of systems change.
Victoria watts
other thing I wanted to point out, because just as you were talking about the curb cuts, is here up in St. Augustine, this is a perfect example of a city that has been kind of universally designed in a way to be accessible for the low vision community, because there's such a big presence up here with the school, but you go to a crosswalk and you press that button, everything is audio, "wait, wait, wait." And then it has the countdown, everything is loud, and it's audible, so that person knows exactly when to cross the street, when to wait. And again, as a sighted person. I like that. I prefer that because I'm busy doing something at least I'm hearing. So that is just a perfect example of a very simple way to make crossing the streets. accessible and better for everyone.
Melody Goodspeed
I'm so glad you brought that up. I just had a conversation with a friend of mine yesterday who can see but he goes on walks a lot and with the sun setting, he can't see the lights. So in then how many times even do you think when I was driving where you have that glare? If you heard that you would have the confidence. So again, universal design folks don't need to rely on their eyes.
Tony Stephens
How many people rely on their eyes At the intersection Yeah. And like how many people are on a train? Look, and if you don't have the audible announcement too.
Victoria watts
right. Yeah, exactly. We've been taking Cyrus to Disney every year since he was probably about two or three.
Tony Stephens
Love that Florida residency pass.
Victoria watts
Yeah. And this year that we changed it up and took them to Universal Studios for the first time. And as I'm going through these rides, I'm thinking to myself if they could just have an audio feature when we're writing these rides, like we were on the Hagritz motorcycle ride, and there's a little bit of audio, but just to even have a device that you could pick up when you get to the park, if you need that assistance, that can take you through the park with audio. There's no reason why we can't do this.
Melody Goodspeed
And they have these museums with their walking tours. I mean, it's horrible people.
Victoria watts
There was a gentleman that was kind of guiding us through the park. And I mentioned that to him, I said, How come you guys aren't doing this, that would make it so much easier for people with disabilities, people like my son, but also make it better for everyone and the aging population to be able to know. And to get that audio description of what is happening on these rides. Because you can do it at museums across the world, you could do it here too. You really would improve that experience.
Tony Stephens
Disney one several awards in the accessibility community around an app they put out, that was the first time someone thought about it. For audio description and movie theaters. It would be on your phone, and it would sync up to the movie and have it. Sure I mean, Disney already has something that it would be just as easy to have it when you're waiting in line. Right?
Melody Goodspeed
Tony, I don't know about you, being a parent and a blind parent. But I obviously you and I listen to audio description, we're watching movies, but I come down all the time. And my kids, my son has got it on, and he's like, it just helps me concentrate.
Victoria watts
I'm so glad you said that. Because I was just saying that to someone the other day, because we've started with Osiris watch, we are watching Harry Potter, the Harry Potter movie the other day, and I put on audio description. And it was great for me as a sighted person, because sometimes there's glare on the TV, you know, the Harry Potter movies are usually very dark, and I can't really see what's happening. So it was able to give me what was happening without me actually being able to see it because of the glare on the TV or I get distracted by something. And I'm not really paying attention to the screen. It's a better experience for me, because I actually don't miss as much as I normally do when I watch a movie.
Tony Stephens
It helps us. My mother would have it on so she would be cooking in the kitchen.
Melody Goodspeed
Right? Or you have to get up and get your kid a drink or something spills. Because you know that always happens.
Thank you so much for being here. We are so excited to have you as one of our newest board members, we're so excited to have you with us as we ventured towards systems change and creating a life with no limits. Tony, do you have anything before we roll out? You want to add?
Tony Stephens
I don't think so. I mean, other than how can how can folks find out more about sort of the innovations you've been working on to try to advocate around and then find out more about what you're doing, Victoria.
Victoria watts
To learn more about the Cyrus system, you can visit Cyrus system.com. And to learn more about me, you can check out my LinkedIn profile.
Melody Goodspeed
Thank you so much. We've so enjoyed our time with you today. We look forward to more. And you know what I just want to say is personally thank you so much for all the advocating that you do, for having such a strong voice, and for just not settling, and for taking charge and making a change. Because a mom's heart and love is truly a change maker. Thank you so much.
Victoria watts
And thank you so much for having me and for giving me the opportunity to share my story and share the work that I do passionately do for this beautiful community.
Tony Stephens
It's moving us all forward together. So thank you.
Melody Goodspeed
Thanks to you guys so much for hanging out with us today with Victoria watts. Hope you've had an amazing time. If you want to check out what work we're up to, you can visit afb.org. Again, thank you so much and have a great day. Bye guys. See you soon.
MUSIC FADES IN
Tony Stephens
Thanks for listening to inform & connect, a podcast of the American Foundation for the Blind. Be sure to subscribe and like wherever you get your podcasts, and check us out and even consider making a tax deductible gift today. Go to afb.org. AFB, creating a world of no limits.
MUSIC FADES OUT
Share
